Editing Talk:Unused content in Pikmin 3

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== Is NamaPongashi really a base object? ==
== Is NamaPongashi really a base object? ==
The current page states that NamaPongashi is most likely a base object. From what I've seen, NamaPongashi has a unique model to it. If NamaPongashi really was a base object, then all Candypop Buds in the game would have to use the old Candypop Bud model and large tips at the end of their petals, and either a purple underbelly or white on the outside of the petals, which they do not. Also, a Candypop bud model that looks like that looks very threatening, which seems like it would make sense for it to kill Pikmin when they are thrown in. There's a gen file for the test map https://youtu.be/ERW_qASjzC0?t=8100 that has a group of seven of these buds placed next to the used Candypop Buds, which include the respective buds for red, rock, white, yellow, purple, blue and pink Pikmin, which is seven buds in total. This leads me to conclude that the developers were intentionally testing to throw each Pikmin type into separate NamaPongashi's, which makes it even more unusual for a supposed "base" object. Also, how do we know that the "nama" in NamaPongashi is actually meant to indicate that it's a base object? For all we know, it could've referred to a unfinished function of the object. From this, I conclude that the idea that "NamaPongashi is the base object that all Candypop Buds were meant to derive from" should be removed from the page, because based on the evidence I found, it seems more tempting to say that it's really just an unfinished Candypop Bud variant that was just left in the game, and cut because the developers decided it was a bad idea. [[User:Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs|Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs]] ([[User talk:Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs|talk]]) 10:03, January 22, 2021 (EST)
The current page states that NamaPongashi is most likely a base object. From what I've seen, NamaPongashi has a unique model to it. If NamaPongashi really was a base object, then all Candypop Buds in the game would have to use the old Candypop Bud model and large tips at the end of their petals, and either a purple underbelly or white on the outside of the petals, which they do not. Also, a Candypop bud model that looks like that looks very threatening, which seems like it would make sense for it to kill Pikmin when they are thrown in. There's a gen file for the test map https://youtu.be/ERW_qASjzC0?t=8100 that has a group of seven of these buds placed next to the used Candypop Buds, which include the respective buds for red, rock, white, yellow, purple, blue and pink Pikmin, which is seven buds in total. This leads me to conclude that the developers were intentionally testing to throw each Pikmin type into separate NamaPongashi's, which makes it even more unusual for a supposed "base" object. Also, how do we know that the "nama" in NamaPongashi is actually meant to indicate that it's a base object? For all we know, it could've referred to a unfinished function of the object. From this, I conclude that the idea that "NamaPongashi is the base object that all Candypop Buds were meant to derive from" should be removed from the page, because based on the evidence I found, it seems more tempting to say that it's really just an unfinished Candypop Bud variant that was just left in the game, and cut because the developers decided it was a bad idea. [[User:Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs|Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs]] ([[User talk:Beady Long Bramble Grates Legs|talk]]) 10:03, January 22, 2021 (EST)
:* The idea is that it '''was''' a base object, not that it currently is. Further, each specific Candypop Bud could overwrite the base model, so throughout development they all looked like NamaPongashi until the models and textures for the different-colored Buds started getting developed, and started getting used in the derived objects, thus overriding the base object's model with the new ones.
:* I don't personally feel the threatening part because the model clearly looks unfinished, almost like a test model. If the idea of the devs was to make a plant that looks menacing, those tips would probably look more like sharp spikes rather than weird black 12-poly cones that are almost as big as the leaves themselves (compare with the small buds the Candypops have at the tips in the final game). And that is all assuming they'd style the tips in the first place. If they wanted to really make a trap Candypop Bud, they would've clearly communicated the danger in some way. Not with some ambiguous pointy bits that seem plausible in random plants in the world. They would instead have aimed at making the center of the Candypop Bud look dangerous. Maybe with sharp teeth, unpleasant colors, and moving slightly like an idle Piranha Plant. Clarity was a big thing during Pikmin 3's development, considering there is nothing in the game that insta-kills your Pikmin by surprise. Even the old games didn't really kill your Pikmin by surprise much, as long as you were paying attention (Creeping Crysanthemums, falling boulders), but Pikmin 3 made things even safer in general (if a Pikmin so much as collides with an electric gate, it's perfectly safe). Candypop Buds in particular also received a lot of attention to their centers in general, considering they were redesigned to make their centers look like targets and receptacles, encouraging players to throw Pikmin inside even more than in previous games.
:* The test map does shed some interesting light. Though it further makes me believe that the NamaPongashi really is a base Candypop Bud object. If it were just one finalized object, what would be the reason to place seven of it in the test map? What's more likely to me is that during development the real Candypop Buds actually did derive from the base object, and they placed all seven in that map, each one for a Pikmin type. Their specific type data must've gotten lost in the final game. For instance: during development, areas used a specific file format to store object properties (such as what sub-type a Candypop should be), and nowadays the game can't even read those attributes, so all of the seven distinct Candypops spawn as the base form, which is the only data the game can read. Somebody should look into the test maps and see if any properties survived. There are final-game Candypop Buds nearby, which makes me believe that they must've ditched NamaPongashi entirely at one point, and thus, it's not even used in the final game as the final Candypop base object. They then made the Candypop Bud objects we have in the final game. I can imagine that during development, to compare the before-and-after behaviors and keep an eye on what developments were missing, they added both old and new Candypop Buds to the same map.
:* Google Translate returns "raw" as a possible translation for "nama". It also returns "crude", "unprocessed", and so on. DeepL returns "birth" and "unpolished", interestingly. The "raw" part really brings to mind a base object from which others derive. Hence it only contains the ''raw'' information about accepting Pikmin and disappearing and whatnot, but then all derived objects ''refine'' the information to their own needs (spawn a Red Pikmin seed, spawn a Yellow Pikmin seed, etc.). Some of those translations actually make me think that this really was an abandoned version of the Candypop Bud object, like "unpolished". "Birth" is cryptic, though it could mean it's like the firstborn version. Maybe they really did mean to create a proof-of-concept object from the get-go, just filled it with the most absolute barebones behavior, and then proceeded to code the final Candypop Buds separately. They kept the old object for some reason, and named it accordingly with "unprocessed" or whatever, so that developers wouldn't confuse it for the final Candypop Bud.
:So in conclusion, I believed NamaPongashi was some sort of base object that other Candypop Buds derived from during development. And that it certainly wasn't a plant made with cruel intent by the devs. Those observations and new research, combined with a number of years of game development experience, just further help confirm my thoughts. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:11, April 16, 2021 (EDT)


== Buriko ==
== Buriko ==

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