Editing Talk:Unused content

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVqTE3L1sTE&feature=feedu We have a test map for Pikmin 2! And according to Orkal, there are at least 70 unused caves. We need to create a page for this new map. I would, but I don't even know what it's called. Until then, I just posted the video here. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 13:47, 8 September 2011 (EDT)
:Cool. I posted a comment on the video asking the name, hopefully he'll respond. If not, mabye we should just call it something like "Pikmin 2 Test Map" and put in that template that says it's not the real name? :/ Should we put this in the template with all the Pikmin 1 beta areas? --[[User:Jelloratbob|<span style="color:Blue">Jello</span>]][[User talk:Jelloratbob|<span style="color:Gold">rat</span>]][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wg_fsD9jpU|<span style="color:Red">bob</span>]<sup>[[File:Emperor Bulblax.png|20px]]</sup> 15:07, 8 September 2011 (EDT)
::Yes, the new area will be placed in <s>[[</s>:Template:Areas<s>]]</s> too. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 08:09, 9 September 2011 (EDT)

:Odd, it wasn't in the disk image I had (assuming it'd be in the same place as the other test map I found, which was with all the used areas too).  Are we sure it's real? <span style="font-family:times;">'''''[[User:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#080;">G</span>]][[User talk:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#050;">P</span>]]'''''</span> 12:26, 9 September 2011 (EDT)

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGLCRtsdLUE&feature=feedu The same guy just posted a video of an unused cave. Should we do anything about it? :/ --[[User:Jelloratbob|<span style="color:Blue">Jello</span>]][[User talk:Jelloratbob|<span style="color:Gold">rat</span>]][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wg_fsD9jpU|<span style="color:Red">bob</span>]<sup>[[File:Emperor Bulblax.png|20px]]</sup> 15:45, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

::Aww, he still hasn't replied and told us what names these levels have? I say we wait a bit more so we can make good articles in one go. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:47, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

Mrrgh, seems I went crazy, since that first video is actually the level I found way back.  It's called 'newtest', and the cave is called 'E3_1'.  A full list of caves in the game is [http://paste2.org/p/1652175 here]; have fun working out what they all are... <span style="font-family:times;">'''''[[User:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#080;">G</span>]][[User talk:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#050;">P</span>]]'''''</span> 11:29, 15 September 2011 (EDT)

:Yes, I could swear you posted about that level on the forums. Well, time to make the articles. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 07:43, 16 September 2011 (EDT)

==TCRF==
[http://tcrf.net/Pikmin_2] We need to add this stuff. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 15:06, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

:How much of this do you think is actually important?  I'm pretty sure we came across those images when going through the data ages ago, but didn't really consider having information about them on the wiki.  The old script is just an intermediate part of the development process - should we just mention that it exists, or what? <span style="font-family:times;">'''''[[User:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#080;">G</span>]][[User talk:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#050;">P</span>]]'''''</span> 17:15, 29 September 2011 (EDT)

::TCRF is more focused on giving details on unused content. Honestly, I can't imagine our unused content page having all that text. Yeah, we'll just point that some of the most boring stuff exists, without getting into detail. Other major content should be explained more thoroughly though. And, if possible, we could add details about something on the corresponding article, and link to it in this page, like we have on the voyage log and monolog sections.
::As of now, I say we just mention that an early script exists, and some of the most interesting changes, and then list the unused images. As for the unused caves and treasures, maybe we can add them with more detail on their own articles. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 09:21, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

:::Uh...what unused caves and treasures? <span style="font-family:times;">'''''[[User:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#080;">G</span>]][[User talk:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#050;">P</span>]]'''''</span> 09:55, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

::::You know, on TCRF's article, the author created a sub-page (as of now empty) about unused caves and treasures. I never heard about any unused treasures, so this will be interesting, and the unused caves have been discussed before. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:43, 30 September 2011 (EDT)

==GCR==
Gabriel, and I bet everyone else as well, have been using the [http://www.multiupload.com/JYCMJGROCB Gamecube image tool] to edit the games' files. With it, you can enter unused areas and see unused models in the model viewer. I'm not quite sure how to work with that application, but here it is, nonetheless. '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 18:38, 9 January 2012 (EST)

:Now all we need is a cross-platform, open-source one. <span style="font-family:times;">'''''[[User:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#080;">G</span>]][[User talk:Greenpickle|<span style="color:#050;">P</span>]]'''''</span> 04:52, 11 January 2012 (EST)


==Unused Caves==
Are these unused caves or unused layouts? Also if they are actual caves, shouldn't they have articles? [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 11:00, 4 February 2016 (EST)

:It's complicated. Caves are made up of [[cave units]], and caves, Challenge Mode levels, and 2-Player Battle arenas have text files inside the game that say "hey, create a cave using this and that cave unit". About the unused files, these are just unused cave definition files, that have information on what enemies to spawn, and what cave units to use. So they don't even have information about their name, where they would appear, etc. They also don't make use of any new cave units, so... It's more like they are unused layouts, but they work as fully functional caves. As for articles, it's still worth trying to decide what level of unused information to put on the wiki. Having duplicate info from TCRF is just redundant, although having almost no info is bad. Though we should probably focus on actually documenting the unused content in general, before going in specifics (our unused content pages are very bare-bones, and it's mostly because of the "TCRF redundancy" issue.) &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 11:42, 4 February 2016 (EST)
::Okay. [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 11:52, 4 February 2016 (EST)
:::Well, i saw a video by the guy who discovered this first cave and found it has about 10 tresures on each sublevel and seems to have been intended for the Awakening Wood based on the enemies. (Hairy and Snowy Bulborbs represent the Yellow Bulborbs, as they were there in Beta footage)

==Pikmin (game) Unused areas==
I know there are 10 different unused maps in Pikmin (game) but we have 9 different ones. There is Code test, Map 06 (Note, blues can fall through the floor if mapped onto a certain stage in challenge mode.) Play 4 (there is a weird red square here under the map) Play 3 (e3 map), Teki (tuto 2), Tuto 1(holes that  trap you), Route (unused impact site), Shapetst (Yaku stage with bottles) Testmap (shapes), and the missing area which is a small square used for testing water. If you want to find the missing map, look up Boblax on Youtbe (not me) [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 12:51, 8 February 2016 (EST)

== What's the point? ==

The name's a bit of a misnomer.  What I'm really asking is "What's the extent?"  Right now, these pages vary greatly from one another, and that leaves me wondering exactly what these pages are for.  What, exactly, is supposed to go on these pages?  How much stuff is supposed to be included?  Everything, a select few items, or something in between?

If it's for everything, then is someone supposed to just copy and paste stuff from The Cutting Room Floor?  Do we just include interesting stuff?  If then, what constitutes interesting?  Do we include only a few things?  ...well, maybe not that.  But you get the gist: is everything supposed to be included or is it up to the editor's discretion?  [[User:Burrhead2|Burrhead2]] ([[User talk:Burrhead2|talk]]) 18:30, September 17, 2022 (EDT)

:Unused content refers only to content inside of a finished, sold version of a game, that ends up unused during regular gameplay. Ideally, we'd be documenting everything. But like you said, things get more difficult when stuff like TCRF exists. Dumping all of the responsibility to TCRF is a possibility, but leaves Pikipedia with a weird empty spot. Documenting everything alongside TCRF means there's duplicate information. Documenting it only on Pikipedia just isn't an option. The most sensible decision is to just document it in both places, but avoiding copy-pasting is pretty hard. To top it off, unused content in the Pikmin series is just wild. The first game has so many unused maps in so many different formats that even accessing them is a nightmare, much less documenting them. Pikmin 2 has so many tiny unused things that add up to make Pikmin 2 one of the largest articles on the entirety of TCRF. Now consider that when something new is discovered, or something needs to be corrected, somebody needs to be responsible for updating both websites (really, they're only responsible for updating Pikipedia, but purposely leaving misinformation on the internet by leaving TCRF with outdated information is just cruel). Also, Pikipedia actually has some info that nobody's documented on TCRF yet. Put all of this together, and it's no surprise that nobody's found the will to hunker down and clean all of the unused content info yet. Maybe one day... &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 08:54, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
::Sooo... is the answer yes?
::But more seriously, as much as I'd love to sit down for a while and fix these articles, I usually have better things to do, as do most of the other editors I presume, hence the articles having gotten this far.  And when it comes to how much or what stuff to put here, the obvious answer is "everything", but in some cases, do people even care or need to know?  Fore example, Pikmin 2's kiosk demo has an early version of a huge part of the game's text and dialogue, but there's a lot of changes that are just different line breaks (which the wiki ''rarely'' keeps) or in a few instances, the early text lacks the color of the final.  Leaving it up to editor's discretion would lead to opposing ideas about what's interesting and what should and shouldn't be included.  For example, I really couldn't care less about the changes to Pikmin stock, and allotted time and sprays in Challenge Mode, but some other editor, who wishes to see it included for completion's sake, puts it in, when it's entirely possible that there's only a dozen people on the planet who would actually care about it.  I think that everything should be included, but to some sort of logical limit.  But then it wouldn't be everything, would it?  [[User:Burrhead2|Burrhead2]] ([[User talk:Burrhead2|talk]]) 10:08, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
:::Well, that example in particular is for prototype stuff, which should go in a different article than this one, but I know what you mean. I guess if we focus on the most important stuff first and start going down the list, eventually we'll get to a point where nobody wants to document the rest any more, and I suppose that'll serve as a natural limit. To document ''everything'' we'd have to actually write down the differences in bytes in the game binary, or differences in pixels of textures and such, and that's obviously beyond the limit. So I guess while there's no real answer, it just...sorta comes naturally after a while. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 10:56, September 18, 2022 (EDT)
::::I suppose that does make sense.  I guess I should just have faith in the process, or something.  I still wonder somewhat how it'll turn out without any concrete limitations or "should do"s and "shouldn't do"s, but maybe I'm worrying too much.
::::But... I don't think we even ''have'' a page on Pikmin 2's kiosk demo.  I have a hard time imagining what it would look like since, according to what I've seen on TCRF, you could literally count on one hand the amount of changes that aren't text related.  (but that's another issue)  [[User:Burrhead2|Burrhead2]] ([[User talk:Burrhead2|talk]]) 18:12, September 18, 2022 (EDT)