Editing Talk:Spotcap

==About splitting the article==
There's been a template in regards to splitting the Spotcap and Kingcap from one another for the sake of parity, but no such discussion on the talk page. I figured I'd remedy this, and also give my two cents.

I'm very much in favor of the split--Generally speaking, if there's entities in this series that are of the same classification, but have literally any differences whatsoever, the two entities get their own distinct pages. This can range from minor differences like [[Common Glowcap]]s and [[Glowstem]]s where the only difference gameplay-wise is a unique Piklopedia entry and Glowstems usually marking Bomb Rocks traps,  or more major differences where [[Dwarf Red Bulborb]]s and [[Red Bulborb]]s being just ''entirely different'' in terms of gameplay, species, lore, etc..

While the Spotcap and the Kingcap both lack Piklopedia entries to differentiate them in Pikmin 3 Deluxe (smh nintendo ;P), it seems Nintendo definitely considers Spotcaps and Kingcaps different enough from each other, both in terms of gameplay (Kingcaps are beefier in terms of health, whereas Spotcaps are smaller and weaker) ''and'' in terms of their iconography, sort of (Kingcaps are the basis for the [[Challenge]] mushrooms in ''[[Pikmin Bloom]]'', and most UI only uses single Kingcap mushrooms to represent Challenges altogether. Spotcaps, meanwhile, despite existing in Pikmin Bloom, are primarily used as decoration for the central Kingcap mushroom in the challenge proper, as well as the UI to show how "big" a Challenge is).

This *does*, however, leave a question about the brown mushrooms in the arena for the [[Armored Mawdad]]. To my awareness, they have no name, so they'd go in [[Minor obstacles]]--however, if it turns out they ''do'' have a name (be it by Nintendo confirming in an e-mail what their name is like what happened with the Wario Land II enemies and VB Wario Land Bosses, the name in the files, or maybe even them directly name-dropping them), I'd say it may be worthwhile to decide if they belong on either the newly-split Spotcap/Kingcap articles or even their own articles entirely depending on if any further differences become emergent.

Admittedly, as just a standard user, I don't want to rashly try splitting the pages myself, especially if it turns out this idea literally came from just the one edit that added the template, and then myself. So I'll pose the question here--should we split the Spotcap and Kingcap? -[[User:Camwoodstock|Camwoodstock]] ([[User talk:Camwoodstock|talk]]) 13:10, February 2, 2022 (EST)

:Honestly I think the articles might work split. But I think the small brown mushroom should probably be lumped in with the Spotcap. It's not that they are the same thing, but it's that it's a good article for the info to be in, similar to how [[juice]] information is in the [[fruit]] article. It could go under the minor obstacles article, but it's almost exactly the same thing as the Spotcap, just with a different coat of paint. Don't think it makes sense to create a section in the minor obstacles article that'll just copy-paste a chunk of the Spotcap article. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 14:16, February 7, 2022 (EST)
::That much makes sense--split the Spotcap and Kingcap, but keep the strange brown mushrooms to the Spotcap's article. And obviously should the brown mushrooms be different enough somehow--like them having a wholly unique species name that Nintendo suddenly reveals--''then'' it can be split to its own article. Obviously, I don't exactly have the power to split the articles, but I feel like people are more-or-less fine with splitting it, right? :O [[User:Camwoodstock|Camwoodstock]] ([[User talk:Camwoodstock|talk]]) 11:26, February 10, 2022 (EST)

== The brown variety is apparently called "Dusty Mushrooms" ==

So thanks to [https://twitter.com/_Flamsey/status/1594761136448094210 this] I saw that [[Quaggled Mireclops#Olimar's comments|Olimar's commetns about the Quaggled Mireclops]] apparently say that the brown variety of these mushrooms are called "Dusty Mushrooms". It is true that there Olimar mention some "Dusty Mushrooms" and a plant called "Sleeping Beauty" too, though it doesn't specify which plants are those. He mentions them while saying that those plants could grow thanks to the inside of the Quaggled Mireclops, but I don't see any mushrooms growing on top of or close to the Quaggled Mireclops, so I don't know.

Still, it could be that Olimar is referring to plants that ''can'' grow thanks to the Quaggled Mireclops, not necessarily plants that were currently growing on it, and the name "Dusty Mushrooms" could also be referring to that brown variety of the Spotcap. They are dusty, they are mushrooms, and I don't think that there are other known mushrooms in the game where that name could be attributed to. So do you think that that Olimar's comment is enough to call them "Dusty Mushrooms"? That would also leave what the heck are "Sleeping Beauty", but that is other topic. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 18:32, November 21, 2022 (EST)

:"Dusty Mushroom" is actually the name for these objects internally as well, specified in the file with the lock-on names for plants. So it's definitely the most official name for these mushrooms. I think it should be mentioned in the article. The name "Sleeping Beauty" is also in the files, for a plant that according to the Pikmin Technical Knowledge Base is a "flat clover patch". &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 20:51, November 21, 2022 (EST)

::Well nice. Now, if they do have an official name different from the Spotcaps, shouldn't they have their own page instead? I see that one of the arguments to split the Kingcaps was that they have different names (other one was that they have more health, and I don't know if the Dusty Mushrooms and the Spotcaps have different health). Still, they have different names and appearance, which makes them a different species, and even if they appear in just one area, they were acknowledged by Olimar which is something I think. Also, this leaves me wondering: what was displayed when the Dusty Mushrooms were locked-on in the Wii U Pikmin 3? -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 22:18, November 21, 2022 (EST)

:::You can't lock onto them in the original ''Pikmin 3''. As for whether they should get an article, it's hard to say. They're not especially important, which would normally mean they shouldn't get an article. But they're not Spotcaps, and they're also more important than anything in the [[Vegetation]] article, since you can interact with them and they appear on the radar. So I'm not sure. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 23:15, November 21, 2022 (EST)

::::I am leaning more towards them having their own article, but for now I will just cover them in the Spotcap article, until more  people give their opinion or something. And one thing; in [[pikmintkb:Pikmin 3 identifiers|this]] I see that apparently the Dusty Mushrooms are referred to as "Hokoritake" and the "Sleeping Beauty" as "katabami" in the files. How do you know for sure that those names are referring to those two plants? Or why did you say that the names "Dusty Mushroom" and "Sleeping Beauty" appear in the files through "Hokoritake" and "katabami"? Unless each translates directly to the other which I cannot confirm, the names are just different. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 05:38, November 22, 2022 (EST)

:::::I went to check the Japanese version of the notes, but they don't mention the mushrooms. They mention {{j|カタバミ|katabami|{{w|Oxalis_corniculata|sleeping beauty}}|f=tp}} and {{j|ウリカワ|urikawa|{{w|Sagittaria pygmaea|dwarf arrowhead}}|f=tp}}. Both plants are shown on [[media:Scan_48.jpeg|this scan]], and both grow on top of the creature. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 08:32, November 22, 2022 (EST)

:::::I got the names from the files. "Dusty Mushroom" is the name for <code>hokoritake</code> in the file that specifies the lock-on name of objects (even though this particular object cannot be locked-on to), and "Sleeping Beauty" is the name for <code>katabami</code> in a seemingly-unused file with the names of several plants. Perhaps the writers had access to these files but didn't consider whether the names are actually visible in-game? Regardless, they are definitely official names for these objects. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 16:06, November 22, 2022 (EST)

::::::Ah alright, I see now, thanks! Also that difference in the Japanese version of Olimar's comment is interesting. -[[User:Kirbeat|Kirbeat]] ([[User talk:Kirbeat|talk]]) 07:02, November 23, 2022 (EST)