Editing Talk:Rookie Rescue Officer

== Rename to "Rookie"? ==
"Pikmin 4 Player Character" seems too long. Rookie seems like the best option for this.
[[User:Greasy Hot Dog|Greasy Hot Dog]] ([[User talk:Greasy Hot Dog|talk]]) 11:19, August 23, 2023 (EDT)
:We discussed this a lot in the Discord server, and in the end decided to give this article the most objective name. While "rookie" is the most common name used for this character, it's more of a rank than an actual name, so it would be wrong to use it like a name. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:05, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

== Should we change gender to female? ==
The pikmin Comic refers to them as "she". Should we also do that? [[User:Mama09001|Mama09001]] ([[User talk:Mama09001|talk]]) 06:25, June 21, 2024 (EDT)
:The Pikmin comic uses a specific depiction of the rookie with a feminine design, but this article is about the customizable character as a whole. It would definitely not be correct to say that my custom rescue corps officer with a full mustache is officially female. -[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 06:29, June 21, 2024 (EDT)

== Rename ==
While in the past I thought "''Pikmin 4'' player character" was a good name for this article, I don't think it is anymore. The main problem with it is that [[Oatchi]] is also a player character, since you can directly control his actions, so referring to just one of the two player characters as "the player character" is incorrect. Sometimes this term is abbreviated to "the player", which is also a problem as that term is usually used to describe the person playing the game. Renaming this article is difficult though, as there's no consistent name for the character. For example, we can't call it "Rescue Officer" because all the Rescue Corps members are Rescue Officers. What could this article be renamed to? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 04:39, July 7, 2024 (EDT)
:I'd say "Newbie Rescue Officer". The Japanese version of Pikmin Garden refers to them as {{j|新人レスキュー隊員|Shinjin Resukyū-Taiin|Newbie Rescue Corps member|f=tp}} on the coloring pages and {{j|新人レスキュー|Shinjin Resukyū|Newbie Rescue|f=tp}} for short on the comic's cast page, so that seems to be their official name over there, and "Newbie Rescue Officer" is pretty much an official translation of that. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 06:47, July 7, 2024 (EDT)
:I am ''very'' much in support of a rename to something like "Rescue Corps Rookie" or "Newbie Rescue Officer". We shouldn't be calling them this overly clinical out-of-universe descriptor that no one actually uses just because they go by several names, it's like calling the article about "the ship", "our ship", "the Hocotate Freight ship", and "the S.S. Dolphin" something like [[Hocotate ship|''Pikmin 2'' non-playable character]]. [[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 09:23, July 7, 2024 (EDT)
:(Edit conflict) I support "Newbie Rescue Officer". It's an official name and it describes the character both accurately and concisely, in a way that "[Game] player character" certainly doesn't. The name "rookie" only seems to be used by Dingo in-universe, and he doesn't prefix it with "Rescue Corps". [[User:CortexCPU242|CortexCPU242]] ([[User talk:CortexCPU242|talk]]) 09:27, July 7, 2024 (EDT)
::I will say that the title "rookie Rescue Officer" does appear to be used officially in [[https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/News/2023/August/A-day-in-the-life-of-a-Rescue-Corps-Officer-2416417.html  one article]], which also calls them "our rookie" for short. The alt-text for the [[https://pikmin.nintendo.com/ca/comics/#!/too-stuck-to-pluck  first comic]] seems to call them "Newbie Rescue Officer", before shortening it to just "a Rescue Officer" in all later text. [[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 09:45, July 7, 2024 (EDT)
:::You're right. I didn't do enough research before claiming that about the "Rookie" option. [[User:CortexCPU242|CortexCPU242]] ([[User talk:CortexCPU242|talk]]) 05:30, July 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::Between the options of "Newbie Rescue Officer" and "Rookie Rescue Officer", which name would be better to use on the wiki? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 21:29, November 29, 2024 (EST)
:::::I'm more in favor of Rookie Rescue Officer. It sounds more formal, and is a term used by Olimar, Shepherd, Collin, and especially Dingo.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 22:43, November 29, 2024 (EST)
::::::I just came across another source for "Rookie Rescue Officer". You know how I mentioned that the coloring pages in the Japanese Pikmin Garden website calls them {{j|新人レスキュー隊員|Shinjin Resukyū-Taiin}}? It turns out that English-language versions of the pages can be [https://play.nintendo.com/printables/print-and-play/pikmin-heroes-coloring-pages/ found on the Play Nintendo website], and they refer to the character as "ROOKIE RESCUE OFFICER". Not only that, the name {{j|新人レスキュー隊員|Shinjin Resukyū-Taiin}} is also used in the chocolate egg figurines, so I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the character's official Japanese "name", so I'd say it makes sense to treat its English equivalent the same way. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 09:57, November 30, 2024 (EST)

:Slight correction, the name on the comic's cast page is actually {{j|新米レスキュー|Shinmai Resukyū}}, not {{j|新人レスキュー|Shinjin Resukyū}}, meaning it is not short for the other name. Not that it changes much. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 11:17, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
::If we did rename the article to "Newbie Rescue Officer" or something like it, what other changes would need to be made around the wiki? A lot of things would need to be reworded. I think in situations where an article is describing things that can be done with the Newbie Rescue Officer and Oatchi, the name could be shortened to "Rescue Officer", because it would be clear what the name is referring to in this context. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 20:55, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
:::I see where you're coming from, but that may also create confusion. Dingo is a Rescue Officer™ and he can complete some stages in the newbie's place. This means that if we're writing strategies for e.g. a Dandori Battle, a statement like "The Rescue Officer can do X to win" can equally be interpreted as "Dingo can do X to win". For another example, Collin accompanies you on your first trip to the BoB. A statement like "The Rescue Officer can punch the Bulborb Larvae to death" can therefore be interpreted as a false claim that ''Collin'' kills the larvae for you. My proposal would be to write "Newbie Rescue Officer" for the first mention in an article, and "Newbie" afterward. [[User:CortexCPU242|CortexCPU242]] ([[User talk:CortexCPU242|talk]]) 05:30, July 9, 2024 (EDT)

: On a related note, I've noticed that [[:Template:Characters]] lists the newbie under "Leaders", and the rest of the Rescue Corps, including Oatchi, under "Rescue Corps", which seems a bit inconsistent, if they're not the only playable leader among the Rescue Corps. And then [[:Category:Characters]] has its own way of organizing them too... [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 08:49, July 9, 2024 (EDT)
::That's definitely a strange way to sort them. That navbox also puts Collin and Shepherd under "Rescue Corps" and Moss under "Other", although all of them are playable leaders in at least one game mode. [[User:CortexCPU242|CortexCPU242]] ([[User talk:CortexCPU242|talk]]) 10:39, July 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::That was discussed on the discord when someone had actually moved them to the leaders section of Category:Characters, which was reverted by Soprano. He ruled that the characters should be sorted by the roles that they'd be better recognized for. Since Collin and Shepherd are only playable in smaller side-modes, they'd be more recognizable as NPCs to the average joe trying to find characters. That's not to say I agree with that organization method, just that it was discussed briefly on the server. [[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 13:30, July 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::Hm, I see. Though, I tried fiddling bit on [[User:2 B/Sandbox|my sandbox]], and I think this could work. What do you think? [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 13:34, July 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I think that's a good way to organize the template. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 21:29, November 29, 2024 (EST)

:I don't think any of the nicknames given in-game are common enough for them to be "the" name. If one nickname was used 80+% of the time, then maybe, but as it stands now, every character and menu just refers to the character as whatever name comes in handy then. I think we have no choice but to go with a descriptive name instead of a pseudo-proper noun. {{w|Wikipedia:Article titles|Wikipedia's policies}} might help here. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 09:20, November 30, 2024 (EST)
::Again though, wouldn't that reasoning also have applied to the Hocotate ship prior to Pikmin 3 Deluxe? [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 09:50, November 30, 2024 (EST)