Editing Talk:Purple Pikmin

According to the game, a purple Pikmin weighs 10 grams, and a red bulbord weighs 10 grams. Is there any logical explainaton you guys can come up for this? Mine is that They don't really wheigh 10 grams, but the downward force they exert is 10 grams woorth, only when they are on a scale. Is this possibly plausible? Maybe some sort of chemical reaction? [[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|ocolor]] 17:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

:How could a chemical reaction cause an increase in mass?  Only if the air reacted too, but it would have to be (assuming that it is Earth) about 16.6dm<sup>3</sup> of air (a cube of sides 25cm); and why would a Purple Pikmin react?  ...That was really random.

:The value in the article was added by an anonymous user, so I'll assume it unfounded and remove it.  It has been calculated, however, that they can carry 10g, as 100 are required to carry the [[Doomsday Apparatus|1kg weight]].{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

:Wait, I read what you wrote again.  Where does it say that in the game?{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}
 
Hey, I'm not anoymous![[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|ocolor]] 20:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC) Oh, and what if the neutrons and electorns somehow rearranged themselves into a superdense atom? Maybe Purple Pikmin are made of this super dense Element, and thats why they are so extremely hard to produce? O.o[[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|ocolor]] 20:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh, to get this straight: If the atoms of a Purple Pikmin where to be that dense, it's size would shrink (considering it was a simple Red Pikmin before thrown into a candypop). It's the same with black holes. The're smaller than our sun (I think), but have far stronger gravity. And GP wasn't reffering to you as a Anonymous user, instead the person who wrote the weighth. Still, this does confuse me. I think what you said [[Talk:Weight and Strength|here]] was on the right track. Just because it say "10" doesn't have to mean that this is grams or a other general mesuring unit.--[[User:Prezintenden|<b><span style="color:Gray">Prezintenden</span></b>]]<sub>[[User talk:Prezintenden|<span style="color:orange">(babble)</span>]]</sub>

:I guess it was guessed.  But Blue Pikmin can throw Purple Pikmin out of the water, lifting 10g, so that kind of kills the whole thing.  I really have no idea.

:I get what you're trying to explain with the density stuff now: why the Purple Pikmin weigh the same amount as Red Bulborbs.  Firstly, I have no idea where that came from.  Secondly, if true, it could so easily be that Red Bulborbs have huge stomachs where there is nothing; and a 'superdense atom' is not really relevant, as density is usually determined by how spaced out atoms are due to the intermolecular bond types and quantities.  For example, ice not dense because there are Hydrogen bonds, which are longer, spacing the atoms out, increasing volume with constant mass.

:...yeah.  That's really not relevant.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

The more isotopes of an atom, the denser it is, regardless of density (or some other subatomic particle). This can be shown be liquid metal, Mercury weighs much more than water at the same density and mass. Also, hmmm. A Purple Pikmin weighs 10x more than a regular Pikmin. A Pikmin carries AT LEAST ten times its weight (if a blue weighs 1 and a purp weighs 10 and a blue can pick up a purp,) so the weight unit of carrying an object= 1 Purple Pikmin minumun or .1 Pikmin minimum. So, a Reb Bulborb weighs as much as 10 Purple Pikmin or 100 Regular Pikmin minimum. That makes more sense. SO, the unit for measuring how much 1 carrying weight is would be ≥ 10 Pikmin weight.
So, a treasure requring 1 Pikmin to pick up is as heavy as 10 Pikmin. Maybe Pikmin are very LIGHT, as they weigh 1/10 of a four leafed clover. A scale unit ( a pikmin on a scale) is 1 Pikmin unit, Or 1 PMU. The weight of 1 carry weight (carrying a carcass or treausre) is 10≤ PMU. The stenght of a pikmin is 10≤ PMU. easy! [[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|ocolor]] 19:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

:By the way, what you said about density at the start makes no sense...  Anyway, that makes sense, but shouldn't be used in the articles as it'd be confusing and unnecessary.  Just use numbers without units as in the game, an undefined, relative scale.  But this applies only to Pikmin weight: the weight of beasts is known calculated using Doomsday Apparatus = 1kg, Purples lift 10g, others 1g, so Red Bulborbs weigh 10g, but there is no comparison anywhere with Pikmin weights.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

But, alas, I have found a way to relate Pikmin weight to the carry weight of an object. A pikmin weighs .1 grams or less, 1 gram assuming that A blue Pikmin's maximum amount to carry is a purple, b/c if a blue can pick up both a purple and 1 gram, and a blue pik is 1/10 the weight of a purp, and therefore a purp weighs 1 gram, then yah.[[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|ocolor]] 01:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, can someone change my sig back to IAMAHIPO_ocolor?

:I don't think the Blue Pikmin being able to pick up Purples would have been considered in their weights.  It just happens...  Either way, that's still a maximum, and not worth putting on the articles.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

Just to summarize: The weight a Pikmin can carry is assumed to be a gram because of the [[Doomsday Apparatus]] treasure. The "1k" label refers to the relative number of Pikmin required to carry it, but it can also be taken to mean one kilogram, or 1,000 grams. Since it takes 100 Purples to lift a 1,000 gram object, each one would have to carry 10 grams, and since each Purple is 10 times as strong as a normal Pikmin, all other Pikmin would be able to carry a maximum of one gram. Also, since Blue Pikmin are not only able to lift Purple Pikmin, but toss them out of the water, Purples must weigh one gram or less, making the weight of normal Pikmin equal to or less than a tenth of a gram, ultimately meaning that Pikmin can carry ten times (or more) their weight, which isn't at all strange for an animal of their size.
I swear I saw this weight theory explained in an article on this site, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Was it deleted?

:I'm still unsure that the Blue Pikmin's strength in those situations applies, but that is all the general idea.  We still can't give an exact value as to the weights of Pikmin, though.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

Yah, I added that :) brilliant mw :) [[User:IAMAHIPO ocolor|<b><span style="color:Black">IAMAHIPO ocolor</span></b>]] 19:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

My simpler theroy is that each Pikmin weighs about a gram, so Purple Pikmin weigh 10 grams, but I am considering (actually, was) that Purple Pikmin weigh 1 gram and had a lot of muscles around the arms, but I remembered that Olimar said they weigh x10 the weight of a normal Pikmin. And it's probably true that a lot of their weight is muscle, and THAT'S how they can lift 10 grams. If anyone can understand this, please respond. If not, i'm not surprised. And to the person who posted something about Bulborbs and Purple Pikmin weighing the same, what the heck is that from? Really, it doesn't seem very important.[[User:Pikdude|Pikdude]] 00:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should overlook the Blue Pikmins' lifeguard ability, as it's really all we've got to go on. If you've got a scale or a balance at home, it shouldn't take you long to discover that the game's weight units certainly aren't real-life grams, and furthermore, that the comparative weights of in-game objects aren't the same as those of their real-world counterparts (an example: the [[Fuel Reservoir]] treasure weighs only 1/3 more than the [[Proton AA]], whereas an actual 9-volt weighs nearly twice as much as a AA battery). It's clear that Pikmin carrying strength is its own unit, and that weights of in-game treasures aren't comparable to actual objects, so disregarding the lifeguards puts us right back at square one.
Actually, a thought occurred while I was typing this. What if an object's carry-weight doesn't just depend on the object's actual weight, but also on how many Pikmin in takes to balance it? It might explain how objects with completely dissimilar weights but alike sizes would require the same number of Pikmin to carry, like the Proton AA and [[Survival Ointment]]. Of course this absolutely kills the Doomsday Apparatus weight theory, and might be overcomplicating things, but it seems to me to add a dash of Rhyme and a pinch of Reason to otherwise nonsensical weight comparisons.

:"Balance" is kind of misplaced here. You can lift the Plentiful Tank by cramming all the Pikmin onto one side; if real physics would apply at this point, the thing would just topple over. You can get this to an extreme by putting one or two Pikmin on the same side of the Invigorator (not sure how heavy it is). Sadly, the games dynamics can kill most of the theories.--{{User:Prezintenden/sig}}

It's still a game.  If nothing is certain and there are so many unexplainable discrepancies, then maybe we should just get rid of the grammes for treasures' weights and use arbitrary Pikmin units instead.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

So, couldn't we just make up a weight(like "pikin" or something) and use that? It would make things a whole lot simpler.[[User:Pikdude|Pikdude]] 16:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:That's what I said.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

Oh, I couldn't understand what the heck it meant.[[User:Pikdude|Pikdude]] 20:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:Can't we just stay with primitive numbers? That's what the game uses; afterall, that ''is'' where our problems come from.--{{User:Prezintenden/sig}}

What are primitive numbers? Are they our current system of numbers? (The U.S.A., not us.)[[User:Pikdude|Pikdude]] 21:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

:......You just lost me, kid. The U.S.A., not us? Current '''system'''? By primitive numbers I mean 1, 2, 3. No "grammes", "PMU" or "Pikin". ''Just'' numbers.--{{User:Prezintenden/sig}}

That's what I meant by "our current system of numbers".[[User:Pikdude|Pikdude]] 21:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Please, Prez, be my guest if you'd like to change it. I'd do it myself, but I haven't the slightest clue as to how to edit templates. If nobody minds, though, I'd like to change the bit on the [[Pikmin (species)]] page which says that Pikmin can only carry their own weight.

:Are we talking about removing the grammes for treasure and beast weights?  Because the Pikmin's weights are already unit-less.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

Pikmin weights had a unit, just no exact value. Pikmin were ≤0.1 grams, while Purples were ≤1 gram. The whole gram system kind of fell apart though. Might just be best, and probably less confusing, to remove the gram units from the treasure, ship part, and beast templates, but keep the weight values on the individual articles.

:Okay, I'll do that.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}