Editing Talk:Obstacle
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== Articles for Heavy Obstacle and High Ledge? == | == Articles for Heavy Obstacle and High Ledge? == | ||
This article's big list has links to specific pages about all of the obstacles, with the exception of 3 items in the list: 'Buried treasure, fruit, or Sparklium Seeds', 'High ledges', and 'Purple Pikmin needed'. While the first one's link to the [[Dig]] article works, the other 2 deserve articles in my opinion. An article for '''[[Heavy obstacle]]''' could talk about the required use of Purple Pikmin to push down the paper bag in the Awakening Wood, as well as collecting the Spherical Atlas, Geographic Projection, and Doomsday Apparatus (as they are obstacles to completing the game). While the Purple Pikmin article already has a list of [[Purple Pikmin#Mandatory uses|mandatory uses]], these uses are tied to the obstacle of heavy weights, just as the mandatory uses of Yellow Pikmin are tied to electricity or high ledges, and the mandatory uses of Blue Pikmin are tied to water. An article for '''[[High ledge]]''' would be even more useful, as several ship parts, treasures, and fruits are made harder to access by being too high for most types to reach, and this is an obstacle with enough information to describe it, especially considering the various exploits to bypass the height barrier. Do these topics deserve their own articles, or is their current coverage good enough? - [[User: | This article's big list has links to specific pages about all of the obstacles, with the exception of 3 items in the list: 'Buried treasure, fruit, or Sparklium Seeds', 'High ledges', and 'Purple Pikmin needed'. While the first one's link to the [[Dig]] article works, the other 2 deserve articles in my opinion. An article for '''[[Heavy obstacle]]''' could talk about the required use of Purple Pikmin to push down the paper bag in the Awakening Wood, as well as collecting the Spherical Atlas, Geographic Projection, and Doomsday Apparatus (as they are obstacles to completing the game). While the Purple Pikmin article already has a list of [[Purple Pikmin#Mandatory uses|mandatory uses]], these uses are tied to the obstacle of heavy weights, just as the mandatory uses of Yellow Pikmin are tied to electricity or high ledges, and the mandatory uses of Blue Pikmin are tied to water. An article for '''[[High ledge]]''' would be even more useful, as several ship parts, treasures, and fruits are made harder to access by being too high for most types to reach, and this is an obstacle with enough information to describe it, especially considering the various exploits to bypass the height barrier. Do these topics deserve their own articles, or is their current coverage good enough? - [[User:Botanist|Botanist]] ([[User talk:Botanist|talk]]) 18:49, July 12, 2020 (EDT) | ||
:I'm starting to debate if they should even count in the first place. An obstacle should be something that is in the way of your goal, so I guess something being too heavy to carry normally, or too high to reach can count as an obstacle. But if we define obstacles as actual objects, then the notions of weight and height don't really count. I think it's fine to keep them, but there is merit in getting rid of them too. Anyway, I think simply linking to the Purple Pikmin and Yellow Pikmin articles for those two "obstacles" is enough... There is nothing that can be said about heavy obstacles that isn't explained in the Purple Pikmin article, and if the reader wants a list of such obstacles, they have the recommended and mandatory uses listed in that same article. Same goes for high ledges and Yellow Pikmin. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 07:18, July 16, 2020 (EDT) | :I'm starting to debate if they should even count in the first place. An obstacle should be something that is in the way of your goal, so I guess something being too heavy to carry normally, or too high to reach can count as an obstacle. But if we define obstacles as actual objects, then the notions of weight and height don't really count. I think it's fine to keep them, but there is merit in getting rid of them too. Anyway, I think simply linking to the Purple Pikmin and Yellow Pikmin articles for those two "obstacles" is enough... There is nothing that can be said about heavy obstacles that isn't explained in the Purple Pikmin article, and if the reader wants a list of such obstacles, they have the recommended and mandatory uses listed in that same article. Same goes for high ledges and Yellow Pikmin. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 07:18, July 16, 2020 (EDT) | ||
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:::::That should be doable over a few days, right? I'm fine with doing most of it (though it would be good if you could help with the area articles). — [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:17, March 20, 2022 (EDT) | :::::That should be doable over a few days, right? I'm fine with doing most of it (though it would be good if you could help with the area articles). — [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:17, March 20, 2022 (EDT) | ||
::::::I think we might be able to do with the minor obstacles/tools article what we did with the minor planets one. Other than that, I'm honestly considering removing the hazard, obstacle, and tool icons from the infobox in the first place. They're not really useful information at all. They're useful for caves, because it's a nice way for readers to quickly know what types of Pikmin to bring into a cave, but for areas, all Pikmin are always accessible, so this is moot. It's hard to upkeep, it makes the infobox messier, and it's not helpful. And with this new obstacle format change, it'll just give us unwanted work. Other than that, the process is pretty much that. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 15:31, March 21, 2022 (EDT) | |||
I think we might be able to do with the minor obstacles/tools article what we did with the minor planets one. Other than that, I'm honestly considering removing the hazard, obstacle, and tool icons from the infobox in the first place. They're not really useful information at all. They're useful for caves, because it's a nice way for readers to quickly know what types of Pikmin to bring into a cave, but for areas, all Pikmin are always accessible, so this is moot. It's hard to upkeep, it makes the infobox messier, and it's not helpful. And with this new obstacle format change, it'll just give us unwanted work. Other than that, the process is pretty much that. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 15:31, March 21, 2022 (EDT) | |||
:That would be a significant change. We already removed hazard icons from area infoboxes a year ago, but removing obstacles (and not adding tools) would remove a significant part of the infobox. Then again, area object lists already have a list of these objects, and I doubt having icons in the infobox would help people that much? But I'm not sure about that, and we should probably find some way to ask people about whether they're useful before removing them. Either way, we'd have to edit all area articles anyway to split the obstacle list. — [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 16:58, March 21, 2022 (EDT) | :::::::That would be a significant change. We already removed hazard icons from area infoboxes a year ago, but removing obstacles (and not adding tools) would remove a significant part of the infobox. Then again, area object lists already have a list of these objects, and I doubt having icons in the infobox would help people that much? But I'm not sure about that, and we should probably find some way to ask people about whether they're useful before removing them. Either way, we'd have to edit all area articles anyway to split the obstacle list. — [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 16:58, March 21, 2022 (EDT) | ||
::It's not like infoboxes need to be big, so I think it's fine to remove them. We will have to go through each article, but removing the obstacles is a quick and mindless process, whereas adding more icons will take a lot of effort. And at the end of the day, like I said, having those lists is not really useful. I didn't mention before but yes, part of the decision also leans on the fact that the object lists will make sure to inform players of what exists, so there's no reason for the infobox to have them. As for asking around, the icons might be one of those things people don't even notice that they notice... Dunno. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:25, March 22, 2022 (EDT) | ::::::::It's not like infoboxes need to be big, so I think it's fine to remove them. We will have to go through each article, but removing the obstacles is a quick and mindless process, whereas adding more icons will take a lot of effort. And at the end of the day, like I said, having those lists is not really useful. I didn't mention before but yes, part of the decision also leans on the fact that the object lists will make sure to inform players of what exists, so there's no reason for the infobox to have them. As for asking around, the icons might be one of those things people don't even notice that they notice... Dunno. — '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:25, March 22, 2022 (EDT) | ||
:::Sure, but I don't think it's a good idea to remove something that potentially some people liked to use | :::::::::Sure, but I don't think it's a good idea to remove something that potentially some people liked to use. — [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:22, March 22, 2022 (EDT) | ||