Editing Talk:Horned Cannon Beetle

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"Implied" is not objective evidence. They have a different species name, they are a different species. Not our fault. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
"Implied" is not objective evidence. They have a different species name, they are a different species. Not our fault. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
:What would you say distinguishes this from the "spotty bulborb" -> "red bulborb" rename? "Though once mistaken for adult Armored Cannon Beetles" isn't that different from "Originally classified as the spotty bulborb", I'd say, and I explained in the section above why the scientific name specifically isn't a good argument. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 12:26, August 19, 2023 (EDT)
:What would you say distinguishes this from the "spotty bulborb" -> "red bulborb" rename? "Though once mistaken for adult Armored Cannon Beetles" isn't that different from "Originally classified as the spotty bulborb", I'd say, and I explained in the section above why the scientific name specifically isn't a good argument. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 12:26, August 19, 2023 (EDT)
Idk what to tell you, it's a different species. "Once mistaken" is far more vague than "Original classified". The latter directly addresses that former name and what it was changed to. "Once mistaken" could just as well mean "it looked like the one from Pikmin 1" as it does "i thought the one from Pikmin 1 was an ACB but it wasnt".  Again, this really isn't out fault, we're just documenting what the NA game is doing. The best way to fix it from here is to contact the translators and get the full story cause we've done all we can do. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
An in regards to the scientific name, them ignoring content from the ''Pikmin'' player's guide makes sense: we do the same thing. It was always very dubious canon since only a handful of examples crossed-over into ''Pikmin 2''. The various changes made in ''Pikmin 4'' lead me to believe (even if they considered it canon at the time), they no longer do. The only two we can't say that for are [[Goolix]] (who we only "know" is in the [[Goolix family]] cause it's named after him) and the Armored Cannon Beetle. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
:The "it looked like the one from Pikmin 1" interpretation is unlikely, because "adult Armored Cannon Beetles" is acting as a translation of 「ヤマトイシツツミの成虫」(adult [[Armored Cannon Larva|Yamatoishitsutsumi]]), which is specifically referring to an adult Armored Cannon (Beetle) Larva. If we accept that "adult <insert beetle name here>" is acting as a translation of "adult <insert beetle name here>", then Olimar is saying that the "Horned Cannon Beetle" was once mistaken for a grown up Armored Cannon Larva, referred to here as an Armored Cannon Beetle probably due to the contradiction in combining the words "adult" and "larva". [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 13:33, August 19, 2023 (EDT)
:By the way, '''''if''''' the rename theory is correct, then we currently have:
:*{{icon|Horned Cannon Beetle|v=P4|y}} - introduced in ''Pikmin''; previously known as Armored Cannon Beetle
:*{{icon|Armored Cannon Larva|v=P4|y}} - introduced in ''Pikmin 2''; previously known as Armored Cannon Beetle Larva
:*Armored Cannon Beetle - an unseen adult version of the Armored Cannon Larva; mentioned in the Horned Cannon Beetle's notes
:[[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 15:37, August 19, 2023 (EDT)
"Unlikely" isn't a confirmation. And again, you're using evidence from other languages. We're talking about the english canon. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
:If something in the English text is ambiguous, but the original script can provide context for the intended meaning, then it seems silly to ignore it... but whatever, at least the article does a fine enough job of explaining the situation. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 12:41, August 20, 2023 (EDT)
I̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶ ̶I̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶O̶l̶i̶m̶a̶r̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶"̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶"̶ ̶a̶ ̶m̶i̶g̶r̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶c̶r̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶e̶v̶i̶d̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶m̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶n̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶t̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶i̶r̶t̶h̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶r̶v̶a̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶h̶a̶p̶p̶e̶n̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶i̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶d̶  -Ninpan
: It seems really dumb to treat the English translations as the ultimate canon.. as opposed to the Japanese versions, which was where the game was created. We've seen English localisation teams self-correct when they makes translation mistakes, as is the case with the Doodlebug, Empress Bublax/Bulborb Larva... Why can't we just fix mistakes we know are mistakes? You know, this Beetle debacle, Chrysanthemum/Dandelion Family confusion... [[User:Alexfc|Alexfc]]
::Yeah, it would be one thing if what the localization says contradicted the Japanese version here, but it doesn't. It's just more ambiguous, and the fact that the Japanese version clears up that ambiguity is being ignored because reasons. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 16:02, September 9, 2023 (EDT)
If we were to use everything canon in the Japanese version but not in the English version, we would need to correct a very large amount of the wiki's pages. It's not really worth the effort when it would technically be more inaccurate. The rule is ultimately there to provide accuracy above all else, and opening up the door to picking-and-choosing which region differences are correct would be a mess of an idea. It's ambiguous in English, therefore we document it ambiguously. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
:A lot of things are ambiguous. They're implied, but not explicitly stated. The woman that sends Louie mail in Pikmin 2 is his nana, but that's not explicitly stated in the English version, for instance. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 16:34, September 9, 2023 (EDT)
Yes. It's ambiguous in English, therefore we document it ambiguously. -'''[[User:Bossclips|Bossclips]]'''
I think the page covers the issue just fine, even if I personally would prefer the pages be merged. --[[User:NintendoPanda101|NintendoPanda101]] ([[User talk:NintendoPanda101|talk]]) 18:44, September 9, 2023 (EDT)
I know this won't change anything, since it's from a Japanese source, but I thought I'd say it here anyway: Pikmin Garden was updated with information on Armored and Horned, and the Armored Cannon Larva is explicitly described as a native species, unlike the Horned Cannon Beetle. In Pikmin 1, the Armored Cannon Beetle was explicitly NOT a native species. [[User:2 B|2 B]] ([[User talk:2 B|talk]]) 12:52, December 30, 2023 (EST)

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