Editing Talk:E-Reader

==What is this==
Um...what.  What is/are the e-reader thing(s)?  This does not make it clear to me, and I can't rewrite it if I have no idea what's going on.  Anyone have the knowledge/want to rewrite it themselves?{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

:It was a "Card Game" like Pokemon cards and you would hook a scanner to a Gameboy and swipe your Pokemon/Pikmin/Etc. and it would give content like sounds and stuff, there was even a Mario Party-E where it would give minigames... {{User:Crystal_lucario/Sig}}

::What does the article mean, 'supposed to unlock' in Pikmin 2?  You said Game Boy - was it only for GB games, or was this a whole separate 'game' that linked to the GCN, or what?  And it was never implemented, or just never in Pikmin 2?{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

:::It was only on GB so I figure it was mini-games based on Pikmin 2 for the Gameboy, I'll upload a Pokemon E-Reader picture, m'kay? And it wasn't a game it was a scanner and you swipe the cards and it would temporarily put the data on the E-Reader... {{User:Crystal_lucario/Sig}}

::::Okay... {{User:Crystal_lucario/Sig}}

:::::BUMP!!! {{User:Crystal_lucario/Sig}}

::::::Ugh.  After my holiday.{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

:::::::I dunno what you mean by that so... errr... um... yeh... {{User:Crystal_lucario/Sig}}

::::::::What else could a holiday be?  I'll get to it after looking through the rest of the recent changes...{{User:Greenpickle/sig}}

==Useful info==
http://tcrf.net/Pikmin_2/Version_Differences#E-Reader_Support<br>
The information here may be useful. In short, the article explains that only JP-NTSC Pikmin 2 had e-reader support, and it's got some screenshots and basic info from or regarding each of the small mini-games associated with the Pikmin2 e-reader cards. (Also explains the differences between models in various versions.) {{User:VivixCore/sig}}

==Notes about the Japanese in the e-cards==
While trying to fix the size info of the enemies as they're listed on the e-cards, I reached conclusions about what the different words mean. Thing is, they're so tiny and vague that it was really hard to understand what the card meant. So before I forget &ndash; and because I'm sure this'll be helpful in the future &ndash; here's what I have:
*体長 = length (body length)
*直径 = diameter
*脚幅 = leg span
*高さ = height
*羽幅 = wing span
*?丈  = roller length (not quite sure, but similar-looking words mean "cylinder" and "wheel" and such, so it's likely the [[Waterwraith|rollers]])
*約 = approximately
&mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 10:26, 24 July 2015 (EDT)

==Trivia Change==
I think we should add that Super Mario Maker also has Pikmin sprites, but I'm not sure how to reword it.
--[[User:Jpmrocks|Captains, dismissed!]] ([[User talk:Jpmrocks|talk]]) 02:16, 5 November 2015 (EST)

==Missing backs==
About 20 e reader cards a missing backs. [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 11:47, 28 January 2016 (EST)

:CreativeSushi, the uploader, says he doesn't know what backs those cards have. Nobody else does either. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 16:00, 22 January 2016 (EST)

::I got an idea, it's called e-bay. Also None of the cards are Yellow, one is tan, a few Purple and White and a majority Red and Blue [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 13:02, 27 January 2016 (EST)

:::There's a missing idea on that idea, though: '''money'''. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 12:45, 27 January 2016 (EST)

::::Well, I probably will be able to buy a '''SINGLE''' e card for data.

:::::Maybe you can, but CreativeSushi already spent quite a lot of money on the cards that he did. Other people don't buy them because they don't exactly come cheap, and getting an e-card is so low-priority that nobody bothers to even try. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 14:54, 27 January 2016 (EST)

::::::Well, I wan to clean up a bunch of minor things and this is one of them. But first, the 2 Player Battle, Mission and Challenge (Pikmin 2) and Bingo Battle. [[User:Pikifan4|Pikifan4]] ([[User talk:Pikifan4|talk]]) 14:03, 28 January 2016 (EST)

==Renaming proposal==
I propose that this article be renamed (moved) from "e-Reader" to "''Pikmin Puzzle Cards''". This is because the main subject of the article isn't the device, it's the ''Pikmin''-themed cards and the minigames they come with. This wouldn't require changing the article that much, as only the first paragraph is about the e-Reader; it's really only the introduction that would have to change a lot. And it would have the benefits of putting this really interesting and little-known information in an easier-to-find place (it could be added to the gallery in [[:Category:Games]] for example). What do you think? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:59, January 15, 2022 (EST)
:After some time, I guess I realized I'm neutral on this topic. We should wait for more opinions. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 14:10, March 7, 2022 (EST)
::The first issue with renaming this article is what to rename it to. And this is actually a really difficult problem because of how many names apply to this thing. There are:
::*''Pikmin Puzzle Card e+'' ({{j|ピクミンパズルカードe+|Pikumin Pazuru Kaado e+}}): the name of the card packs
::*''Plucking Pikmin'' ({{j|ひっこぬきピクミン|Hikkonuki Pikumin}}): one of the three games
::*''Marching Pikmin'' ({{j|てくてくピクミン|Tekuteku Pikumin}}): one of the three games
::*''Connecting Pikmin'' ({{j|つなげてピクミン|Tsunagete Pikumin}}): one of the three games
::*''e-Reader'' ({{j|カードeリーダー|Kaado e Riidaa}}): the piece of technology needed to play the games
::*''Pikmin 2-e'' ({{j|ピクミン2e|Pikumin 2e}}): a name I've seen used for the expansion as a whole, though I can't find an original source for this
::The name we pick for the article depends on the angle we want to come at it from. Currently it's the technology, but it should it be the cards, the three separate puzzle games, or the concept of the expansion? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 00:40, March 31, 2022 (EDT)
:::I'm going to try and write part of an introduction to this article if its title was ''Pikmin Puzzle Card e+''.
::::'''''Pikmin Puzzle Card e+''' ({{j|ピクミンパズルカードe+|Pikumin Pazuru Kaado e+}}) is a series of collectible Pikmin-themed cards that can be used to play special minigames with the Japanese version of [[Pikmin 2]]. Only available in Japan, these cards come in packs of 3 that could be bought from stores, and there are also a few special promotional cards with different distribution methods.''
::::''There are 3 types of puzzle minigames that these cards give access to, and each card contains a dot code that gives access to a specific puzzle. To play the minigames, a GameCube and Gameboy Advance are required, along with a device called an e-Reader+ and a Gameboy-GameCube connector cable. (The GameCube, e-Reader+, and copy of Pikmin 2 must be of the Japanese version.) By scanning the card with the e-Reader+, the minigame can be played on the GameBoy Advance.''
:::That could definitely be written better, but it's a start. What do you think? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 20:43, July 3, 2022 (EDT)
::::Seems all right. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 09:37, August 13, 2022 (EDT)
:::::Actually, I'm not sure now whether ''Pikmin Puzzle Card e+'' is the right name to use. Because if you look at [[:File:Pikmin Puzzle Card Logo.png|the logo]], the main part of the name is ピクミンパズル (Pikmin Puzzle), and the カードe+ (Card e+) is below and to the side. カードe+ is the Japanese name for the e-Reader+ (the device needed to play these games), so calling the games ''Pikmin Puzzle Card e+'' would be like calling them ''Pikmin Puzzle e-Reader+'', and it's weird to have the name of the technology in the name of the game. But would calling the article ''Pikmin Puzzle'' be accurate? It's so hard to know if we're doing the right thing with these names when we don't speak Japanese... &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 18:17, August 13, 2022 (EDT)
:This entire thing is a little difficult because Pikmin Puzzle Card e+ is the only true example of a game that ONLY exists as e-Reader cards. Mario Party-e (Japan: “Card Game Mario Party-e”) is the closest comparison, but it exists as a physical game, with the e-Reader cards being optional. The other e-Reader sets all link to a specific game and have more obvious names as a result (e.g., Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3-e).
:I think, for me, the actual choice of what to call the article in English is difficult, but it is pretty clear that “e-Reader” is NOT the correct name to use here. Swapping the focus of the article to the cards and minigames with a section explaining the e-Reader would be my preference, though again choosing the name is difficult. I took a cursory glance at Japanese Wikipedia, and they seem to use “Card e+” as part of the title of the packs. So I think “Pikmin Puzzle Card e+” is a little clunky, but no moreso than other ad-hoc Japanese translations. It seems to be the ‘most correct’ and readable way of doing it without crafting our own English translation from wholecloth. The cards and minigames are the only things that have a name directly. There isn’t a good name for the game as a whole once it’s on the e-Reader. [[User:Marsdeat|Marsdeat]] ([[User talk:Marsdeat|talk]]) 07:30, June 24, 2023 (EDT)
::To be clear: I know PPCe+ links to Pikmin 2. I meant that all the other e-Reader sets link more DIRECTLY to a specific game. Pikmin 2 effectively acts as DRM for PPCe+ rather than being an integral part of the experience. [[User:Marsdeat|Marsdeat]] ([[User talk:Marsdeat|talk]]) 07:40, June 24, 2023 (EDT)

==Splitting proposal==
OK, here's the problem: there is no name that covers all the things that this article describes. The '''e-Reader''' is the piece of technology. '''Pikmin Puzzle''' is the name of the card packs. '''Plucking Pikmin''', '''Marching Pikmin''', and '''Connecting Pikmin''' are each minigames that have no connection with eachother other than being accessed from the same menu in ''Pikmin 2'', which is just titled "カードe+". So here's a possible solution. Why not have separate articles for each of the 5 things? This article would describe the technology and how the minigames are loaded from the GameCube to the GameBoy Advance. Another article would contain the list of cards and related objects. And 3 articles would describe the minigames in greater detail. This isn't ideal because there isn't a clear separation between these topics, but I think it's better than the current situation of having all the topics under an article title that doesn't describe most of them well. Thoughts? &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 21:20, March 10, 2023 (EST)
:An article just for the device would have information available elsewhere on the internet, and would be no longer than a few paragraphs. An article on just the cards seems like a waste. Each mini-game having its own article sounds good, but only after we actually have enough to say about each of them, like a description of each stage. "e-Reader" still seems like the best title because it's the main topic under which all of the other topics fall. The Pikmin cards were made for the e-Reader. The Pikmin 2 mini-games were made for the e-Reader. It's a bit like how our [[Nintendo 3DS]] article works. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 11:05, March 12, 2023 (EDT)
::I still don't think "e-Reader" is the best title for the article, because it's not what most of the article is about. This article is not like the Nintendo 3DS article, which is a hub for other articles and for topics not large enough to justify their own article. I actually think that if this article was split, it would be even more like the Nintendo 3DS article. It would be a hub article explaining the technology, linking to other articles (the article about the cards and the 3 minigame articles), and describing topics that don't belong in their own article (the Animal Crossing section). Giving the minigames their own articles could also motivate people to cover them in more detail. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 17:02, March 12, 2023 (EDT)
:::I would support splitting into two at first blush, one for the cards and one for the e-Reader itself. There isn’t a compelling reason to separate the minigames into separate articles until we have enough prose to justify it, but I’m not opposed to doing so in theory. As I said above “Pikmin Puzzle Card e+” is clunky, but it seems to be the most correct way to name, at least in keeping with how English and Japanese sources generally treat the names of Japanese-only e-Reader releases. [[User:Marsdeat|Marsdeat]] ([[User talk:Marsdeat|talk]]) 07:32, June 24, 2023 (EDT)