Editing Talk:42 Pikmin challenge

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I'd love to see this run happen. Heck, I'd love to do it, but I don't have the time. Anyway, 57 is the minimum for a 100% completion, yes, but I don't think it's the minimum for a credits run. Unless I'm crazy, you only need to defeat the bosses in the game in order for it to be considered complete, right? In that case, for instance, you wouldn't need 10 Winged to lift gates because none are mandatory. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 14:41, 20 February 2015 (EST)
I'd love to see this run happen. Heck, I'd love to do it, but I don't have the time. Anyway, 57 is the minimum for a 100% completion, yes, but I don't think it's the minimum for a credits run. Unless I'm crazy, you only need to defeat the bosses in the game in order for it to be considered complete, right? In that case, for instance, you wouldn't need 10 Winged to lift gates because none are mandatory. &mdash; '''{''[[User:Espyo|Espyo]]''<sup>[[User talk:Espyo|T]]</sup>}''' 14:41, 20 February 2015 (EST)
:Yes I'd consider a credits run to be only defeating the bosses, as is the case with 7 day runs. As for the Winged Pikmin, 10 are also necessary to pull on the 3 Flukeweeds attached the stick that's blocking the lily pads in Twilight River. Also I think one or two clipboards in the game are necessary to pull up but those only require 8. I'll add this to the page. [[User:GreenPikmin|GreenPikmin]] ([[User talk:GreenPikmin|talk]]) 15:13, 20 February 2015 (EST)
:Yes I'd consider a credits run to be only defeating the bosses, as is the case with 7 day runs. As for the Winged Pikmin, 10 are also necessary to pull on the 3 Flukeweeds attached the stick that's blocking the lily pads in Twilight River. Also I think one or two clipboards in the game are necessary to pull up but those only require 8. I'll add this to the page. [[User:GreenPikmin|GreenPikmin]] ([[User talk:GreenPikmin|talk]]) 15:13, 20 February 2015 (EST)
==Is 42 really the minimum?==
What counts as the minimum number of Pikmin necessary to beat ''Pikmin 3''? It seems like a simple question, but it depends on what you count and don't count. It's clear that the 30 Yellow Pikmin used on day 1 shouldn't count, and it makes sense that [[sequence break]]s should be allowed in this challenge, but then it starts getting complicated.
57 is the minimum number of Pikmin necessary without sequence breaks. (Although it would be a terrible idea to build the Garden of Hope pot bridge with only 1 Blue Pikmin, it is possible.) However, if the Brittany cave is exited without pushing the iron ball, this number is reduced to 42, as only the 5 Yellow Pikmin the game gives you need to be grown. However, there's another thing you can skip in the Brittany cave: [[Sequence break#Yellow Onion skip|activating the Yellow Onion in the first place]]. This is done in speedruns of the game to save time, and the result of it is that after day 3 (or whatever the first day in the Distant Tundra is), all your Yellow Pikmin disappear. The game never records any Yellow Pikmin as being grown. This would make it impossible to complete the game normally (and it does make it impossible to get all the fruits), but it is still possible to complete the game through the use of other sequence breaks. If the 5 Yellow Pikmin you get aren't actually counted, where does that leave the minimum Pikmin count?
[[File:P3D Final Report 37 Pikmin.jpg|thumb|right|250px|A completed 37 Pikmin run.]]
Here is a screenshot of the [[final results menu]], showing a completed 37 Pikmin run in ''Pikmin 3 Deluxe'' that I just finished. Although I controlled 42 distinct Pikmin during the run (not including Charlie's section of day 1), the 5 Yellow Pikmin I got on day 3 disappeared, and are thus not counted as births or deaths. However, there's something interesting to note here. In order to activate the [[electrode]]s in the Distant Tundra, I needed 10 Yellow Pikmin, so I used the Yellow Candypop Buds in the area to convert several Red Pikmin to Yellow Pikmin. I used the Red Candypop Buds elsewhere in the area to convert all but 5 back to Red Pikmin, but it's possible to not do that. In fact, since only 10 Pikmin are required to complete the Tropical Wilds (because of the paper bag and phone), it's possible to convert all but 10 of your Red Pikmin and Rock Pikmin into Yellow Pikmin, and have 21 Yellow Pikmin disappear at the end of day 3. By the time you reach the Formidable Oak, that would leave you with 10 Red/Rock Pikmin, 10 Winged Pikmin, and 1 Blue Pikmin, for a total of 21 Pikmin. It is possible to beat ''Pikmin 3'' with just 21 Pikmin &ndash; half of the current "minimum".
But does this really count? After all, 21 Pikmin disappeared at the end of day 3, so throughout the run, 42 Pikmin were used in total. But to the game, there's no difference between the 21 Pikmin who disappeared at the end of day 3 and the 30 Pikmin who disappeared on day 1. And this is where things get complicated. If we're counting all Pikmin used, including those who disappeared on day 3, then shouldn't the Yellow Pikmin on day 1 be counted, making it a 72 Pikmin run? Or should disappearing Pikmin not count since they're not counted the final results menu, making it a 21 Pikmin run? I think this article should be renamed to 21 Pikmin challenge and changed accordingly, but it's possible to argue that 42 or 72 is a more correct number. That's why I'm starting this discussion so the future of this article can be decided. &mdash; [[User:Soprano|'''Soprano''']]<sub>[[User talk:Soprano|''(talk)'']]</sub> 21:42, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

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